All you have to do is look at the porn research. There is tons available, all of it proving how harmful it is to women, and yet somehow or another most people aren’t even aware that it exists.

There is no valid research which proves porn is neutral in harm, yet that is what the pro-pornies claim, over and over.

A stretch? That’s putting it mildly. Take this quote:

“Estimated rates from several sources suggest range of lesbian partner abuse from 11% to 73%….”

11% to 73%? What’s wrong with this picture?

Then it jumps to 76% with the 1987 Minnesota Lesbian Battering Intervention Project Survey.

What really has me scratching my head is that I live in perhaps the most violent country in the world, have lived in most every region in the U.S. – north to south, east to west – and I’ve only known one lesbian couple in a battering relationship. And they didn’t stay together long. A couple of months at best. But when it comes to male on female violence, I don’t even have to venture out of my own neighborhood to see it. I don’t think I’ve ever lived in a neighborhood where it didn’t go on. I’ve lived in big cities and small towns. I’ve lived in very wealthy neighborhoods and very poor neighborhoods. It made no difference. The percentages remained about the same, regardless of class, race, creed or color. Male batterers come a dime a dozen. There’s usually several that live on my block in any given city or town I’ve lived in across the U.S. Number of lesbian batterers in any neighborhood I’ve lived in? Zero.

I’m not saying lesbian violence doesn’t exist. Of course it does. But I will say that I don’t give a flying fuck at the moon how many studies someone pulls out of their ass to “prove” lesbians are as violent as men, I will continue to use my own eyes, ears, and experience instead of relying on the word of others and “studies.” Especially those with an agenda. It is a myth that we have freedom of speech. What gets published is what the patriarchy says gets published. Ask any feminist writer. It is difficult, at best, for any feminist to get her work published. So one must take these articles and studies with a grain of salt. Chances are it had to be given the patriarchal seal of approval before it could be published. Not surprisingly, a number of feminists will sell out to get published. Because they have to eat.

But I will agree with you, Allecto, that porn is alive and well in the lesbian community. I’m seeing more and more of it. BDSM as well. But BDSM, even as fucked up as it is, is a far cry from an abuser whose intention it is to control their partner through battering, terrorizing and even murdering their partner. Motive makes all the difference in the world.

26 women were interviewed – a very small sample. NO information was given as to how these 26 women were found, one must at the very least consider that they were self-selected for this paper.

Some of these lesbians had been in abusive relationships previously – with men. You do realize that people who have been abused tend to seek out relationships which repeat familiar patterns, right?

The author didn’t say, but my guess is that she found these women at a shelter for abused women.

When one study comes out with a number which is so far from the average, ethical scientists will acknowlege that it’s probably inaccurate in some way.

I cringe every time I hear so-called studies that *reveal* [such bollocks as] lesbians are just as or MORE violent than teh menz. That’s a stretch.

It’s all part of the continuum to erase male violence (whether male-on-female or male-on-male), and frequently is the claim that “women are just as violent as men” when the statistics (of victims/perps) do NOT bear this out in the slightest.

As for the so-called ‘lesbian’ porn (I’ve just read Amy’s & allecto’s posts), it horrifies me — it is male porn, psuedo-lesbian stuff. When violence is sexy, ask the question WHO finds violence sexy (clue in the DV stats) and reject the notion outright. Violence is the perversion of sex.

All wimmin, including lesbians, should wake up and smell the patriarchy on this one.

I did not at any point state that female against female violence was worse than male against female violence. Obviously, men kill, maim and torture women. Men kill maim and torture more women than women do. But violent behaviour in lesbian relationships does exist. It especially exists in the new hip pornographic, sadomasochistic, queer, genderfucking world of fauxlesbianism.

One of my sources:
Estimated rates from several sources suggest range of lesbian partner abuse from 11% to 73% (Renzetti, 1998), and according to several researchers mirrors the prevalence rates in male-female partnership violence (Ferri, 1998; McClennen, 1999; Pearson, 1997). Reporting on the National Coalition of Anti Violence Programs in Off Our Backs, Mantilla (1998) stated that in twelve cities in the USA gays and lesbians reported that approximately fifty percent of the domestic violence cases involved lesbians and bisexual women and that same gender violence is on the increase (NCAVP Domestic Violence Report, 1998; Jennings & Gunther, 1999). Moreover, Barnes (1998) in the USA stated that violence in same-sex relationships is a growing concern especially in those states where the legal definition of DV does not include same-sex partners and Jennings and Gunther (1999) are of the view that same-sex violence is mostly unreported.
The 1987 Minnesota Lesbian Battering Intervention Project Survey found that
76% of lesbians had experienced some form of ‘indirect threat of violence
from a lesbian partner’ (Elliott, 1996 p 3). Furthermore, the Minnesota Gay
and Lesbian Community Action Council found that of the 900 lesbians
surveyed 22% had been in same-sex partnerships that were physically violent
(Elliott, 1996). According to Murphy (1995 in ABA Commission on Domestic
Violence, 2001) between 50,000 and 100,000 lesbians are battered each
year.
However, Renzetti (1998) is critical of research that attempts to provide
prevalence of lesbian domestic violence. She has suggested that the
difficulty of obtaining large random samples has resulted in studies
characterised by small self- selected samples. Moreover, some research
studied only physical violence while others included verbal, emotional and
sexual. In support of the difficulty in establishing the true prevalence rate
Renzetti stated, ‘As long as homophobia forces lesbians to hide their identity
from others, including researchers, a true prevalence study of lesbian partner
abuse remains undoable’ (1998 p 119).

You can find the whole article here: http://www.austdvclearinghouse.unsw.edu.au/Conference%20papers/Exp-horiz/Davis_Taylor.pdf

Other indications of the prevalence of violent sexuality in the lesbian community:

Slit magazine is a lesbian pornography magazine read widely in the lesbian community in Australia: http://www.slitmag.org/slit.html

Candy lips is a popular lesbian night out in Melbourne: http://www.candylips.com.au/photos.htm

Do I think women are responsible for the widespread violence in lesbian relationships? No. Men are. Does this make violence in lesbian relationships any less serious to women’s health and well-being? No.

I made a political and personal choice to be a lesbian. I believe in the gynergetic power of lesbian sexuality and politics. But to the majority of ‘queer’, fauxlesbian women, I am a sexually repressed, nutty prude because of my radical stances against pornography and sadomasochism. Both of these are man-made diseases that HAVE infected the lesbian community. This infection is serious. And I think it is stupid not to do serious feminist analysis of the consequences.

Lucky, if you are aware of any studies that contradict the ones quoted above I’d like to have a look at them. But until you show me proof I will continue to believe that violence in lesbian relationships exists to the same extent as violence in male/male and male/female relationships.

60% of the female population reports that they have been battered by their husbands/bfs. Again, that’s just the ones that have reported it. So I believe it to be a conservative figure.

We’ll put it this way. If you’re a het woman, the odds are against you that you’ll be with a non-violent male partner. And it’s getting worse with each passing year, not better.

I’m sorry Lucky, I don’t get what you are saying here.
60% of all het men are reported as abusive, or 60% of men reported as abusive are het, or 60% of people reported as abusive are het men.
My brain is a little fuzzy maybe.

mAndrea, if you’re so eeevol, why hasn’t there been a crunchy new post for lo these many days? Smoke in your eyes? Life in the way?
I hope all is well with you.

While the majority of lesbians are not violent, the majority of het men are. I have a friend that works in the justice dept who compiles the statistics. According to her, 60% of het men are being reported as abusive. And that’s just the ones that are being reported.

Now please stop trying to justify your heterosexuality with scary lesbian stories. It’s homophobic and downright wrong and annoying.

And gee, who conducted these studies? Teh Menz?

Being lesbians only make up 4% of the population, you’ve got to be really grasping for straws to pretend lesbians are as violent as men. In this country, there is a woman battered every 9 seconds, raped every minute and murdered every 15 minutes by a man that supposedly loved her. Key word there: man.

Now do you really believe lesbians are being battered every 9 seconds, raped every minute and murdered every 15 minutes by their lesbian lovers? If they are, I sure missed the headlines. Oh, I know! The media just forgot to report it! **rolleyes**

I’ve been involved with dv shelters all over the country for 30 years. On both sides of the coin. In all that time, I’ve only encountered 2 other lesbians (besides myself). And guess what? Those 2 were partners. They weren’t there because of each other. They were there because of male violence. When not volunteering, I was also there because of male violence. So I don’t know where you’re getting your info from. But someone’s telling some mighty big fibs.

Now let me tell you the difference between being hit by a man and being hit by a woman. When you get hit by a woman, you say, “Ouch.” When you get hit by a man, you go to the hospital with broken bones, an eye hanging out of its socket and wind up with 257 stitches. But let’s all pretend it’s the same thing, ok?

Now give me a break. Male violence doesn’t even compare to female violence. It’s not even in the same ballpark. Now let me repeat the statistics again. Men are responsible for 97% of the world’s violence. Women are responsible for 3%. And I can assure you they’re not all lesbians. Again, lesbians only make up 4% of the population. So even if lesbians accounted for half of that 3% (which they don’t — not even close), that would mean the majority of lesbians are not violent.